Static Companies Don't Win

Tony Zubek: a program that they wanted, because if you build it, they will come, does not exist. If we don't know who the customers are, what they want, it's never going to work. So we took that time to really drive it. thankfully, the customers agreed. And then, of course, the executives agreed.

Amber Meakin: This is Vouched, where we're flipping the script on the job search because people are more than a resume. I'm your host, Amber Meakin All right, welcome to the show, everyone. Today I'm vouching for Tony Zubek. Tony has spent his career building loyalty, CRM, and payments programs for some of the best known names in retail and banking. He started out in financial services at a couple of major banks, then moved into retail loyalty at National Apparel Brands, where he rebuilt a stalled rewards program into a three-time award winner. From there, he led loyalty and brand strategy at a multi-brand retailer. And most recently, he built a B2B technology company's first global loyalty platform from the ground up. Tony and I first worked together when he ran the loyalty program at a fashion retailer, and I was on the partner side helping bring it to life. He's the person you want when a program has stalled and needs to become something customers actually love. And he's rare in this field. Someone who can set the strategy and then actually build the thing. Tony, welcome to the show.

Tony Zubek: Amber, thank you for such a kind introduction. I appreciate it. I appreciate you. How are you doing today?

Amber Meakin: I'm doing well. Thank you. Thank you for joining me and again being one of one of my first guests on this new adventure.

Tony Zubek: I appreciate being number two. I know I was able to listen to Elisabeth when you posted last, just a brilliant young lady she is. And it was so conversational and I'm grateful that you're giving me the opportunity to have the same forum that such a wonderful leader has on your platform.

Amber Meakin: Yes, absolutely. let's get into the questions.

Tony Zubek: I'm ready, Amber. Bring it on.

Amber Meakin: after more than 20 years in loyalty across banking, retail, and B2B, what still pulls you back to this work?

Tony Zubek: It makes me think about what people remember. And people traditionally with loyalty programs, they don't remember their points, but they remember how the brand made them feel. And loyalty is something that really brings that emotional connection to life when it comes to what consumers are. Consumers are very savvy today. They know what a brand believes. They want to know what a brand believes and they want to know that the brand really knows who they are. And that's the stem of loyalty, to be able to have conversations, not at a consumer, but with the consumer, in what channel they want to be in, at what time, with the relevant marketing material associated with that, so that we can grow together as a brand and a consumer relationship. That's what drives my passion when it comes to how we can foster loyalty programs and consumers and have that cohesive relationship.

Amber Meakin: Mm-hmm. you talked a little about communication and your answer, and that kind of triggered a thought for me on really with the amount of time that you've been in the the loyalty space. Initially we were talking direct mail, right? And now we've have email and SMS. What how have you, I guess, how have you seen that evolve and What is still working and what's what do you see that's that's not working?

Tony Zubek: In the beginning, it was primarily transactional, where I would say, have a reward, go spend it. What I've seen in an evolution of how we communicate to customers is providing them the appropriate recommendations, the information related to the brand, or any of the products that we believe in that would be the best for them, which is basically a recommendation. But I mean, I've seen it go from that transactional to more of the emotional connection that truly drives the behavior of a customer. Now, I love, this is one of my favorite examples. I started at an organization and signed up for their emails. And one of the first emails I received was, join me for a braid bar. And if anyone sees my profile on LinkedIn, I don't have enough hair. to participate in a braid bar. So that right then and there, Amber, told me that this company did not know who I was. So when I'm thinking about communication, the thought is find out who the customer is, send them the right information so that they know that you are aligned with who they are as individuals and not just a number in a database.

Amber Meakin: Yeah, Elisabeth and I talked a little bit about that on on the last episode too, about really knowing your customer a and know know who you're talking to. Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

Tony Zubek: one has to. mean, if I if I have three rescue dogs and a rescue cat, if I were to get an email about a bird, I love birds. I don't have any personal about or take personal against birds, but it's not going to do me much good. But if you focus, if one focuses on, you know, my puppies or my or my cat or, you know, some of the benefits that we can get for them, I know that they at least know who I am as a person, as a consumer, and they know the My Little Furry Children, which of course is another kind of connective point that we want to make sure that we share with customers along the journey.

Amber Meakin: Yeah. when you took over the retail loyalty program, it had been sliding for years. What was actually broken and how did you turn that into an award winner?

Tony Zubek: What we did was, we had to really focus on what the program was at first. We had to audit and diagnose what the opportunities were. Some of them were very simple, low hanging fruit, but others were more long-term. And I found that specifically with one of the programs that I worked on, that it was not a symbiotic relationship with the brand. I called it the party that wouldn't die. versus a brand that was elevated. I kid you not. And we were able to look at that and say, can we bring this loyalty program closer to the brand? But then how can we build something that will define the strategy to prioritize what we need to do next? Which is something that worked out very well. It was really that we took the time to understand who the customer was, what they were looking for. and how we were able to make those changes effectively to have them engage more with the program and the brand systematically, which worked out very well for us as we architect the mechanics behind it, looked at the go-to-market strategy, how we communicate to customers and what channels, whether it be in paid or owned channels. And then we were able to take those opportunities into learnings and really build a governance and a way to measure. that opportunity so that we could then specifically focus those learnings to everyone in the building. Whether they were the janitor or the CEO, I wanted to make sure they knew about the program and who was in the program, who was the consumer, what we were doing in that forum. And what really kind of turned the tide was that knowledge share with my internal partners, my external partners, Amber, as you know. I like to overly communicate sometimes, but that then turns into something very meaningful for the customer. And that turned the tide from, you know, being at a lower, a non-optimized enrollment level to something that represented 90 % of our total sales, which was staggering at the time and continues, I believe to this day, that we were able to create some, a program. that communicated to the customers, again, in their channel, in their time, a program that they wanted, because if you build it, they will come, does not exist. If we don't know who the customers are, what they want, it's never going to work. So we took that time to really drive it. thankfully, the customers agreed. And then, of course, the executives agreed. And we were able to thrive within the organization and make more loyalty more of a village that was a part of the entire community versus an outside program, which turned out to be quite successful for us. And Amber, you were part of that success, as I recall. The collaboration was a very, I call it a round table experience. I might have the biggest chair in the room, but everybody has equal say in where we go and what we do. And one of those chairs were yours. And you came up with such wonderful ideas, such fantastic concepts that we were able to optimize within our program. Because that's one of the other opportunities that we have is that some of those items, they were great PowerPoints, but we had to drive them to reality. And how did we drove that to reality was through that effective communication structure that we had internally and the partnerships that we had and the communications across the entire spectrum. so that we know that we were being successful and we knew not only from the KPIs that we all aligned to, but also if I was in a meeting and I heard someone quoting something that either you or I said, I knew that we were winning. And that I think really drove to the success of what we were looking for.

Amber Meakin: Yeah. something I feel like was unique to the program, and I don't really see this even today is a profile update. And rewarding for a profile update, not just yes, when you first sign up, you get a reward for completing your profile, but really coming back in 12 months later, confirming your information is right. And I just thought that was so unique to the program, and it's a good value driver and other brands should really consider. Because you're keeping that contact information up to date, you're also rewarding them for updating that contact information, which could then drive a repeat purchase. And even with those lapsed customers incentivizing them to come pop back in, yeah, I get X dollars, you know, for updating my profile. I just thought that was a very good strategy for the brand.

Tony Zubek: Yeah, thank you for that. Because consumers are not static. They're dynamic. Everybody, change. We change daily, Amber, you know, with whatever new TV shows we watch or stream, whatever books we read, whoever we meet in the street, if I happen to adopt another dog, if you will, or, you know, purchase a new scented candle that I've been, you know, eyeing for the past few weeks just to try something new. you know, unless we ask, people are not going to just share information. You know, we want to know and evolve who we are by understanding how they have grown. And that allows us to really keep on self-reflecting on not only the consumer, yes, but also the program itself so that we don't have to have this massive... revolution of creating a program again and again and again, but we can take those learnings and continually evolve the program so that we're growing with the customer. Because I've seen it so many times, not only in my past, but in other organizations, they build a loyalty program and then they forget about it. They're like, it's working. It's not a good idea, ladies and gentlemen. It needs to evolve just as the brand needs to evolve. And that's why there's such a symbiotic relationship with the brand and loyalty to be able to grow with the customer, to evolve with the customer, and to make sure that we're hitting the right notes that that customer continues to learn and grow from as they evolve. Static companies don't win, period. Dynamic companies win.

Amber Meakin: Yeah, it's a really good point and just ties into that it needs to be the bus part of the business strategy.

Tony Zubek: Mm-hmm. there's too many times I've seen it be a program. It needs to be part of the culture at the end of the day.

Amber Meakin: Yeah. You've walked into fragmented multi-brand messes more than once and pulled them into one program that works. What's your playbook for that?

Tony Zubek: It kind of goes back to something I've said before. It's really, you have to be able to audit and diagnose what's going on. And that includes not only who the customer is from those fragmented moments, but what's the marketing strategy for each one? What are the channels that we use? What is the MarTech stack that's being implemented? And then being able to consolidate and define the strategy and prioritize. you know, the key segments we want to focus on, what's the right technology you want to use? And again, you know, making sure that we be caretakers to those customers who are existing and doing well in all the different segments, but then how we can evolve those segments and drive into more meaningful way. And that really comes through, you know, architecting the knowledge that we have on those consumers and the MarTech to help build the appropriate infrastructure that we need so that we can communicate to a customer. I sound like a broker when I say this. At the time they need it and what channel they need it and it's the right information. Because that's how we drive that, we turn that fragmented moment into a combined reality. So consumers, gain a mutual respect for the brand. Knowledge is power. I mean, again, I'm sorry, it's a broken record moment, but if the consumer or the customer understands that the brand understands them, then there's going to be more respect both ways. And it's going to turn to something meaningful for the organization. And then to be able to foster growth on both sides of the fence, which is partly one of the reasons why I like loyalty, or I love it actually. It drives behaviors and it also promotes an emotional connection.

Amber Meakin: Yes. the piece that you called out just a moment ago about the MarTech stack. what do you think is kind of like the best framework? We've seen companies that, you know, brands that have their in-house CDP. We've said and then loyalty is managed on the loyalty providers platform. We've seen brands that have loyalty, CDP, they have everything in-house. And everything's homegrown. or you've seen everything out of house into like a maybe multi-brand. So you have one company that's doing CDP, one that's loyalty, one that's CRM, multi-stack on the MarTech stack. Where do you kind of what's what do you see has worked the best? And what do you see kind of into the future that with like AI and things that are changing? From there, where do you see kind of like the what's your vision on that?

Tony Zubek: You know, there's an ebb and flow when it comes to bringing technology in-house and then working with third-party vendors. Now, I would say if an organization is going to bring that functionality into their ecosystem, there needs to be remembrance that there needs to be a constant investment in that platform. It's not just a one and done, it's an evolution. And I think, you know, If that's going to be done, I think it's great. However, I also believe in hiring people for their skill sets and for their knowledge and expertise. So there are a lot of instances where, you know, third party vendor relationships are meaningful and necessary. You know, when we're looking at loyalty, for example, it's not just about earning points and deducting points. I mean, Amber, we had a whole scenario of I think I called them ghost points or something like that, or zombie points, which we won't go into. But, you know, it took an army on your, on your side to be able to help, to help my brand get to where they needed to go, because we didn't necessarily have that full expertise from a technology perspective, but because we had your organization and partnered with them quite successfully, not only from a strategy side, but from a technical side. we were able to work together to help drive the results that we needed and eliminate those zombie points. We found the cure for zombies, ladies and gentlemen, which was quite exciting. So I always think, super long story short, we are always going to have that moment where we go in, we go out, we go in, we go out. But my thought is as long as we have the expertise of the right people in the right place and we have the right documentation, then any scenario would, I believe, would promote success. But again, it has to be continually invested in to be able to drive that success.

Amber Meakin: Yes. I agree that it it it can work. Any way can work. I am curious to see how it's going to evolve with the use of AI. I know there's been a lot out this last week on concerns of where AI is headed. And we've all had those concerns that have that have come up, but I think it's it seems to kind of be rearing its

Tony Zubek: Rearing

Amber Meakin: Doing it yes.

Tony Zubek: its ugly head, let's say. Because, you know, and I love that you brought up AI because AI in my humble opinion, not only personally and professionally, it's not a replacement of people. It's a tool. And it should be a tool that should be used, used in the appropriate ways to help build upon the skill sets of the expertise that one has. It's like a hammer. If I'm going to go put a nail in the wall, I can use the hammer to do that and it's successful. But if I don't use that hammer appropriately, I'm going to make another hole in the wall that then I'm going to have to fix and it brings somebody else in to help me fix that hole. So if I want to make sure the nail goes in the wall properly, I have to know how to use that hammer. And if I don't have the expertise to do that, I'm going to make a lot of holes in the wall. And I think that's where some organizations are going. They're forgetting that people have the expertise to use the hammer. You know, they think, AI is going to be supported, but AI at the end of the day, it's in its infancy. And if it's used appropriately, it'll be helpful, but it's not the end all be all of, think, where we need to go. I don't think it needs to be something where we're replacing people. I think it's a tool. And like that hammer, we need someone to know how to use that tool. And I think that's where we come in, Amber. We're the ones who need to learn how to use AI effectively and responsibly. And that's where comes from.

Amber Meakin: Yeah, I absolutely agree there. It's it's been interesting, you know, learning more about it day in, day out. There's there's always something new that's happening. But I I certainly agree. It's not perfect. And the number of times I've been using it and I see something incorrect in a data point that it's brought up and questioning, it's like, you're absolutely right. I miss that. My bad. And there's but there's people out there that are using it and they they don't have the experience and the skill and the know-how to question, you know, what's right or wrong. And it is, it's it's making messes that have to be cleaned up for sure. But I have definitely appreciated it even in this podcast that I've launched of leveraging Claude to build out skills. That helped me prepare for every call and conversation versus me needing to come up with the questions myself. I'm having it, hey, go check out LinkedIn, help me, you know, take a look at their resume and help me build out some of these questions for the conversation. It's not to say that I couldn't do those and and create them myself. I absolutely could, but it's making from a productivity perspective, it's giving me some time, especially. I don't plan on this being a full-time job. I still plan to have, you know, a career and and back in corporate, hopefully sooner than later. And I want to be able to optimize the time and and make sure it's being product make sure that I'm being productive. And I think it helps with those types of scenarios. So I totally agree. Yes, it's how do you use the tool and use it wisely? And that it's not creating extra work for you. And it's also not creating garbage.

Tony Zubek: Because it allows us to think critically, which is skill set that I think is missing in some of these opportunities. To your point, like doing research on a company, for example, and being able to go look at all of their earnings reports and to come up with a consolidated review so that you can have an understanding, perfect. That used to take me, you know, half hour hour of my time, but now I can have it where I can have AI kind of summarize that for me. So then I could then take it to the next step. So instead of my time using my time to do that kind of simplified work, I can think critically on that simplified work and then ask more detailed questions to be able to drive, you know, the next step. And you know what? I just, I just thought about this. I don't know if anyone's fan of Star Trek. I love Star Trek. I've been watching it since I was a wee lad back in the day. And when I would watch, I mean, everyone's seen at least one episode, hopefully. It is its 60th birthday, so happy birthday to Star Trek. When anybody was inquiring with the computer or asking the computer questions, the computer wasn't the expert. The person was the expert. And they were asking it to extrapolate data that would take hours to do. And if it didn't understand it, would say, clarify or understand because the computer would not be able to take those horribly complex questions sometimes to come up with some critical thoughts. But the person asking the questions could come up with the most reasonable next logical step to help drive that computer to do it. And I think that's, that's the most appropriate function of what AI should be is this Star Trek example. to be able to ask questions to help one critically think in either a different way or to enhance what they were looking for. Live long and prosper.

Amber Meakin: Yes. I love I love that you bring up Star Trek. My dad was the biggest fan. And I don't think it was called Comic Con back then. It was actually like a like a Star Trek convention. And we went Okay, they do they? Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Tony Zubek: I think they still have them. yeah. yeah, yeah they do. yeah.

Amber Meakin: So but it reminds me of Comic Con now. But yeah, man, when we were kids, he would Take us along to his Star Trek convention and get his, you know, Spock, you know, photosign, Captain Kirk. So yes, but that

Tony Zubek: You know, yes.

Amber Meakin: makes sense exactly what you were saying. I I haven't I haven't watched Star Star Trek in a very long time, but that was a good good little memory there. So thank you for that.

Tony Zubek: No problem, and I will say, I have a search from Jean-Luc Picard? Yes, I did. Did I word in public too often? No, but I still love Star Trek. But it was great for Halloween. all I'll say.

Amber Meakin: Yes, how many of us tried to do like the live long and prosper when we were kids? It's or or maybe now. We're we're still kids. What are we talking about?

Tony Zubek: Yeah, we're babies. Everyone's a baby at the end of the day. It's all good.

Amber Meakin: So much loyalty strategy dies as a deck no one builds. We talked a little bit about that with with Elisabeth in the last episode. What do you do differently to get a program actually launched and adopted?

Tony Zubek: It's about communication with direct consumer data and stats. Data does not lie. And to be able to articulate what we're doing, why we're doing it, who we're targeting, and when we want to target it is such a critical opportunity. mean, every different layer of leadership requires different levels of data that they need. I find that, you know, having the bottom line up front or a bluff is meaningful so that people understand where you're going to and what the intent is for that opportunity. So having that ability to articulate the customer data, the stats, what you're doing, where you're going with it and how it's going to work is very important. in anything that we do. It makes me think of, you know, this quote, the late Dolly Parton, love her, she was fantastic, but it kind of reminded me of, you know, if we spend all the time thinking about the bees, we're never gonna have time to taste the honey. So the end result of those campaigns or those decks is the honey. So how do we get pass the bees to the honey. And I think that's where, my prior point, is to be able to drive people to want to get a taste of that honey. And that's through data, that's through customer insights, and that's to be a subject matter expert of what you're looking to do and why.

Amber Meakin: you also have some experience with credit cards and how do you feel like how did you weave in loyalty with a credit card? How do you think that that changes the program or improves the program?

Tony Zubek: I find that when we're talking about a a credit card and a loyalty program, I believe they're very symbiotic. The relationship of the best customers being in the loyalty program and using that as a tool. Traditionally, if one has the credit card and in addition to that, they'll say they have the mobile app, it's a significant win for the brand. Specifically because these customers have given you very private information about themselves, you know, your I mean your income. Social security number, your potential date of birth, you know, these are kind of data points that's you know is is putting a lot of trust from a consumer into in into into the brand. And that's also a premise that they are going to be continually, you know, purchasing and being an advocate for said brand because they have given that opportunity for you. Now, when I'm thinking about like private label credit card versus co-brand, I would say private label. Is is for brand depth primarily, and co-brand is for reach. So when I'm thinking about private label, it's a it's a better sign of experience because I think the approval rates are higher because there's a wider range from a credit core perspective. On the other side, you know, co-brand it does earn you data outside the four walls. so for where I've worked, private label has always seemed to win. because the brand relationships matter the most when we're talking about and having the best optimized experience kind of wins. I mean the other the other data points that come from a co-brand are something that could come from some s some fun surveys that we could do where the customer is rewarded in the currency of the rewards program or some of those other kind of opportunities of engagements, whether it be in the store associate or in a call center. But I think ultimately You know, in what I've experienced, I think the private label wins.

Amber Meakin: Gotcha. Yeah, I I've I've had the private label just as a consumer. I've had the private label and I've had the co brand and I do it kind of does depend on the brand. And for like a fashion retailer, I agree like the PLCC really makes sense. But you know, I have dis I have a Disney co-branded card. And with them just having parks primarily when I'm off property, if it were a private label card, I don't know how often I would use it. But because it's co-brand, it's in my wallet. And it's funny, I love that they actually let you decide what's on the front of the card because I have Grogu and I get so many comments on it everywhere I go. Even when I use it in my digital wallet, you can still see Grogu on there. And everyone's like, is that Grogu? I'm like, yeah, that's Grogu. But

Tony Zubek: See

Amber Meakin: it's it's been fun too, because it's a little bit of a way for me to start building it. Even though I could just go and put money in a savings account, it's helping me kind of go towards you know, bonus points towards my next ticket for Disney. So when I take my great nephew, hey, it's like I spent a little less money when in reality we know that's probably not the situation, but It's still that feel good, kinda back to that emotional connection with loyalty that we talked.

Tony Zubek: Well, anyway, first I still call Grogu Baby Ota. I don't know. Sorry. Sorry, Disney. I still do that. you know, but when when I was thinking, you know, in it and when I was thinking about it as well, you know, the everyone's always everyone has like a primary credit card that they use, right? And you know, it's always the optim, I want to be the primary credit card, I want to be the primary credit card. So for you, it sounds like Disney's your primary credit card. I use Capital One, the Venture One card. But like when I go to stores where I have additional benefits, then I use the other credit card. And I'll I'll even say, you know, without going into names, I do have several other co-brand cards from other from other merchant brands, but I only use that card at that brand because I have my primary card. So I guess you know, at the end of the day, it it's really how the consumer wants to use their their their their credit or their cards. you know, making one the primary and then the ones the secondary because of the perks and the benefits, which is the great part about you know, credit cards and loyalty programs.

Amber Meakin: That is so true. And I feel like you're talking directly to me because I also I do have another card and I primarily only use it. It's co-branded. Primarily only use it at that brand though, because it's twelve times points every time I use it for that brand. So why would I not use it?

Tony Zubek: Exactly, yes. And that brand loves you because I'm sure they get some kind of merchant services benefits associated with it and they, you know, can get a little bit more info on you, which is great. All win-win-win. So I you know, credit cards need to be looked at as a win, but you know, I we should always put this asterisk, they all credit should be treated responsibly. So, you know, like in some instances I treat a lot of my cards like cash. So if I use it, I pay it off next month. If it's if it's if you want to use it for something else. It should be like a short-term, short-term like loan, if you will. That's what credit cards are designed for. So always be responsible in how you use credit cards, ladies and gentlemen.

Amber Meakin: Yes, very valid, very valid call out. you also brought up merchant fees, which reminded me of I think it was probably Starbucks that started this. And it's back when I was working in more of the payment space, and they started allowing you to reload gift cards in your mobile app. Are there other industries in which something like that makes sense?

Tony Zubek: Sure, and I think what I love about it, it becomes an asset for them. mean, think about how many people are using the app, going to Starbucks, using the preloaded card and just reloading it all the time. Not only is there merchant service fee savings, but it's a huge, huge asset. mean, I don't know the specific numbers, but I would assume that, I mean, it's gotta be a billion, at least dollars that they have, you know, it's available to them to be able to, you know, use it in some way. And I think... From that perspective, yes, there are, think, other industries. mean, you could do one, do travel, especially on the business side of the house. If people are going to travel on a regular basis to be able to reload their card, there could be a potential for additional incentives for customers to do so. think restaurants are probably another opportunity. If one goes to restaurant A or B multiple times in the course of a month or a year, You know, certainly, you know, to be able to do that, to offer additional incentives for customers. And then it also makes it that the customer is almost required to spend in your brand. Because once it's in a gift card, I don't believe it's refundable. mean, you have to, you have to check my check my note on that one. But, you know, it's, it's kind of like a guaranteed purchase that they're going to get at the end of the day.

Amber Meakin: Yeah, so I just took a look. while while we were while we were you were talking.

Tony Zubek: Hashtag fact checker, I love it.

Amber Meakin: Yes, fact check almost real time. This says as of late 2025, Starbucks holds approximately one point seven five billion in deferred revenue from unredeemed customer balances on physical gift cards and the mobile app. That's a nice chunk of change.

Tony Zubek: Check for Tony, all right.

Amber Meakin: now that goes more into talking about mobile apps. when does it make sense for a brand to have a mobile app that drives brand loyalty and the customer experience?

Tony Zubek: Always and often, we have our phones on us 24-7. It's probably sleeping by your head at night, waiting to wake you up in the morning. My phone is sitting on my desk. If a consumer allows you to have space on their phone, that's almost better than getting a share of their wallet, because you then, you as the brand actually have a moment of mind space. on a regular basis, the opportunity to communicate to them via this app. the consumer can pick up their phone any time of the day that they have it attached to their hip and they can engage with their brand. There's also push notifications if you have the opportunity to be able to send those to the consumers and get that meaningful communication. mean, at one location that I worked at, at one brand I worked at, we turned into the flagship store. It was the flagship store for a reason because those consumers time over time were some of the best and then tying it back to our other conversation if they had the mobile app and the private label credit card or even the co-branded credit card, they were super top when it came to being advocates or spenders in the brand.

Amber Meakin: How do you think people should be incentivized to download the mobile app?

Tony Zubek: I've done it a few different ways. Normally it's in the currency. It's either the be in the currency of the rewards program that worked best for one brand. could be a discount that they offer on their first purchase in the app. I think that's been ideal. But it's really, you know, how can we entice people to do that? And then I would also say, you know, well, what's the best for my brand if someone asked me that question? A test and learn opportunity would also be good because I mean, points could be a win. I mean, there's so many different ways that one can be incentivized to download the app that, you know, I think for each individual brand, I would certainly recommend a test and learn to identify what's the best way to go. But again, mine's been the currency of the rewards program or a discount or points, actually all three. So it, it, it, it, depends on the brand at the end of the day.

Amber Meakin: Yes, yes. Okay. what are you looking for right now? What kind of company, team, or problem is the best fit? And are you open to full time leadership, fractional, or advisory?

Tony Zubek: I'm looking for a brand that's not standing still. They believe in their product and they believe in their people. It's a place where we all can learn and grow together and keep on evolving and open to new ideas and new concepts to continue that evolution. So whether it be full-time or advisory or anything of that nature, I'm... I'm truly open to any of those opportunities. Because at the end of the day, it's about having an awesome product and it's about having the belief in their people to be able to get me to the next step of where I want to go in my journey of my career.

Amber Meakin: Well, I certainly think any any brand or company that you work at is is going to be lucky to have you. Okay,

Tony Zubek: Amber, you are too kind, but thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Amber Meakin: so if someone listening thinks they have a loyalty or CRM problem worth talking about, how should they reach you?

Tony Zubek: I mean, easiest way to do it is LinkedIn. I'm open to the entire world. So you find my name, it's Z-U-B-E-K, first name Tony. I'm the good looking one with a cool headshot. just send me a message. I'm happy to have dialogue and discussion about anything related to loyalty or any kind of other revenue generating opportunities.

Amber Meakin: Yes, yes. And I'll make sure we have Tony's information in the show notes. All right. So on a lighter note, when you're not deep in loyalty strategy, what do you love doing?

Tony Zubek: You know, personally on my own, during COVID, I got into Legos for some reason. And not for some reason, we didn't have anything to do. And I'm like, well, let's, there was a Voltron set. I'm like, I like Voltron. I like Lego. So I got it. And ever since then, I've really deep dive into it. It's like a time for me to build something that has like a finale to it. Cause once you're done, it lets you kind of build it. and then think through the process. And then if you screw up in the middle, then you have to figure it out. So it's also a lot of problem solving, because trust me, I've messed up something in step six and I'm on step 76. And I'm like, I needed to go back to step six. How do I make it so I don't have to take the whole thing apart and put it back together again? So it allows you to kind of have that clear thinking and the allowing you to kind of do something that you enjoy and build and have a nice little. opportunity to display it later, which my spouse is so happy that I have several of them now today. Have you done them?

Amber Meakin: I I love Legos. I'm not I don't build them one because I have other hobbies that are expensive and that one's pretty expensive too.

Tony Zubek: Yeah, I hear you. I hear you.

Amber Meakin: I don't I don't need another expensive hobby. Do you have a favorite quote or one that you come back to?

Tony Zubek: I know you said this before and I was thinking about it over the, know, since we talked about this and it was something that my father used to say when he was around, rest your soul, love you, dad. And I wrote down to make sure I got it right. So it's gonna look down for a second. It's like, what he used to say is yesterday is the past, tomorrow is the future, but today is a gift. That's why we call it the present. So when I think about that, know, every day is something that's always going to be a gift for everybody. We don't know where we're going to be tomorrow. You know, we don't know what opportunities are going to come ahead. So anytime I think about that, I always think that, you know, we should lead with our hearts. We should, you know, drive with our minds, but always remember to hold hands and take care of each other. Because at the end of the day, that's what's most important. or the people around you and the joys that you can all bring with each other.

Amber Meakin: Yeah. Well I I think that's something you've you've lived very very well with our time and other conversations that we have. I think you you do focus on the present. And then whenever we always when we hang up from a phone call, it's always like, Okay, be well And you're always so so positive. As you know, this show is about vouching for people and part of that is is paying it forward. So is there someone that you would vouch for the way I'm vouching for you?

Tony Zubek: Yes. Now there's a story behind who I'm going to vouch for. When I was negotiating a contract, this individual worked for a third party. And in that contract, I put in there specifically that she needed to maintain her presence on our contract and continue the good work that she did. And I had it written in stone because she is so good at what she does. I think she's the coolest person anytime she comes into the room. She's so smart, so talented in anything she ever presented. And that's why I'm humbled and honored that, you know, your next guest will be Kari Brandt, just a beautiful, talented young lady who happens to also have a fossil bone named after her outside of all the great work that she does in insights and customer knowledge. She's just a dynamic person and I'm so grateful you're giving her the opportunity to come on your show and to share the good experiences that she has. So Kari, have fun, good luck. And I'm grateful that you're gonna have the opportunity to speak with Amber, this other talented young ladies next to me on the screen that no one can see.

Amber Meakin: Ha ha. We may we may get screens in here at some point, but I think, you know, I talked to you a little bit about this off record, but just for those of you that are listening, part of the reason I decided to keep this off camera was I think it will be we'll get more guests that are more comfortable being off camera initially. but Yes, Kari is Kari has already agreed to be on the show and we are excited to talk with her. I'm excited to learn more about this fossil that's been named after her because that's amazing. And that's that's gonna be

Tony Zubek: Isn't that cool? That's amazing, isn't it? Yes.

Amber Meakin: Yes, that will be a very unique story. all right, Tony, thank you so much for your time. And again, we'll have Tony's details in the show notes. And like I said earlier, he's a great business partner to work with. And as you can tell from the conversation that we've had, he knows a lot about loyalty and a lot about credit cards. And I think he's gonna be great for any company where he lands.

Tony Zubek: Amber, thank you for your kindness and the opportunity to use your forum to speak about all the fun things that I've done. And thank you for your kindness. You made me blush a few times, so I can't thank you enough for the opportunity. So thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Amber Meakin: Absolutely. Thank you, Tony. I always enjoy my conversations with Tony. Thank you so much for spending this time with us today. If you're new to the show, here's what we do. Finding a job right now is tough. One opening can draw hundreds, if not thousands, of resumes, and most never reach a real person. So instead of leaving good people stuck in that stack, vouch puts a real name behind them. Every episode, someone gets vouched for by a person who's worked with them and will stake their own reputation on them. Sometimes that vouchers me, sometimes it's a guest voucher, stepping up for someone they believe in. Either way, you're gonna hear exactly why. Today I vouched for Tony Zubek and you got to hear just a bit from me and directly from him on his loyalty and branded credit card expertise and why he's a great collaborator and business partner. So if you're looking for someone with his expertise, his contact information is going to be in the show notes. And this is really the whole point of vouched. The best people usually come recommended. I want to keep that going. If you know someone who deserves to be on the show, someone you would personally vouch for the way I just vouched for Tony, I want to hear from you. You can reach me at vouched podcast dot com. That information will also be in the show notes right alongside Tony's contact information. Thank you again for listening. I'll see you on Vouched.